UPDATE: It’s now live and available, and I’m enjoying the hell out of it!
Yesterday morning, I noticed there was a new product, Garmin BirdsEye Topo US and Canada, on the Garmin website. Pretty sweet – for thirty bucks, you can load USGS and NRC topos to newer Garmin handhelds for a year. I’ve been expecting and wanting this for awhile, so I subscribed right away, thinking I’d put it on my 62s and grab a few screenshots for this post. It didn’t quite work out that way, but let’s go over the product details before I get into my experience with it…
Most topos for handheld GPS units are vector maps; they are made up of lines and points, and look nothing like the USGS topos we know and love. BirdsEye maps are different. These are raster imagery, actual image files, that put USGS topo map images right on your Garmin. Up till now, you’ve had to use Garmin’s custom map process to do this, which can be a hassle, and then there’s that limit of 100 tiles (images) too.
For some people this won’t be a big deal; others will buy the product right away. The best reason I can give for wanting it is this — there is nothing quite like having the exact same map in your hand as on your GPS. You can pretty much determine your position instantly.
Coverage is 1:24,000 scale for the US, with the exception of backcountry Alaska, where it’s 1:63,000 coverage. Canadian maps are 1:50,000 scale NRC maps. For $29.99 per year you get unlimited downloads for one device. A few more caveats:
- BirdsEye™ Satellite Imagery
coverage requires a separate $29.99 subscription
- BirdsEye products are locked to one device
- The 62/78, Dakota, Montana and Oregon series, and the Edge 800, are compatible
Now, back to my own experience, then a coverage map and more stock screenshots from the Garmin site.
I was able to make the purchase with no problem, but the site said the order was awaiting processing and at the next step I was greeted with a screen that said “Sorry, our site is temporarily down for maintenance. Please check back soon.” After a couple of hours I called Garmin support. They passed me off to their Mac team (even though I got the same result in multiple browsers), who said they were having problems with their Web sales on Thursday and that they’d try to get it fixed. Hours passed. I was impatient because I wanted to post and get this out to folks for the Memorial Day weekend. After a second call, in which they took my contact info and said someone would get back to me by the end of the day, my order finally got processed, but when I tried to activate the subscription, I still got the same message. So I had paid, but was not able to tie the subscription to a particular device. A third call confirmed that no one would be back staffing Garmin support till after the weekend, and made it sound like they have no customer service folks associated with the Web sales side of their operation; they certainly never let me talk to them directly if they do. The staff I was able to speak with made it sound like this was something unique to my purchase, though I haven’t been able to verify that.
So it’s probably going to be at least four days before this gets resolved. Definitely one of my worst customer service experiences with Garmin, who are usually pretty good at resolving things. I’ll update this post next week, but I imagine it would tick off most consumers – the web site functions well enough to take your money, but doesn’t deliver the product. I’m sure they’ll make good on it eventually, and if one of you brave readers wants to take the plunge, please drop a comment below and let us know how it goes.
About Rich Owings
I have so far downloaded topo maps from BirdEye to my computer, no problems. I’ve transferred them to my 62s’ card. Tried several times, two different draw orders, 30 and 58 but the results are dismal, never saw the maps on my screen, and my 62s shut down and needed to have the batteries pulled to restart, and shut down again… I did reformat my card, same results and now, my 62s is no longer functional! It shuts down with another car (24K Garmin topo map) and even with no card in there! That is the GPS I use for SAR and it worked to perfection before I started messing with Birdseye Topo!
Beware!
My recommendation: do not use this product for now!
Amir K9CHP
Operator Error!!!!!
After going through may steps, it occurred to me to check the batteries, Rayovac Alkalines. My multimeter showed 1.15 volts on each of the two!
Duh! I just wish the battery power was easier to view on the 62s.
BirdEye Topo is fine and of course did not cause this problem…
Whew, had me scared there! Glad it worked out. Let us know what you think.
I purchased it and have played with it to the extent of downloading the USGS topo coverage for Mt. Rainier Natl Park and so far I really like it. I have used the USGS topo maps for hiking and climbing around the mountain for over 40 years and they’re like old friends to me so it’s great to get them on my GPS. It’s interesting switching amongst the different maps of the park on my 62st – Garmin 100k, Garmin Topo 24k, topos from gpsfiledepot, the BirdsEye satellite imagery, and now the BirdsEye topo imagery. It’s a far sight different from my earliest use of the old 12XL!
Dave
Yes, I’m really enjoying it myself. Been waiting for this for a long time.
Side note – Garmin and/or BirdsEye seem to have real quality control problems with the BirdsEye products. The quality of BirdsEye Satellite Imagery downloaded through Basecamp has become degraded. I select “Highest” quality and I am clearly not getting that based on the image quality and the size of the downloaded file (I’m comparing against previously downloaded images). This has been reported by others on Garmin’s forum pages. At this point, the imagery subscription is worthless.
Dave
That sucks. I understand them compressing it more, but they should be working to improve image quality, not degrade it.
Rich,
Thanks for all your mazing articles and work answering questions – very much appreciated.
I just pulled the trigger on an Oregon 450 and the Garmin Topographic Canada DVD with Basecamp.
If I’m dissatisied with the maps, my plan is to create custom maps using my digital set of Canadian EMR 1:50,000 topos, but this Birdseye option seems like a potentially promissing alternative.
I have a couple of questions though.
1) Does one have to buy the Garmin BirdsEye TOPO US and Canada Card with Annual Subscription AND the Garmin BirdsEye Satellite Imagery Card with Annual Subscription or do they work independently (I.e. one is for topos only, one is for sat imagery only, so you can have either or both)
2) What happens to the maps / mapareas you download? Must they be saved only to the Oregon, or can they be archived off-device (to a computer or USB drive?)
3) Once you have downloaded maps using this service, I presume they work indefinitely? Or does the GPS need to periodicaly connect to the computer which checks for a subscription for them to continue working?
4) Can one use BaseCamp to layer a Birdseye topo with, say, a local riding-area trail map?
Many thanks
Bill
1. You can have either or both.
2. They are saved to your hard drive… https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=15469
3. Yes, they work indefinitely, even if you don’t renew.
4. You should be able to do this by controlling the draw order of the imagery, which is a new feature in the latest release of BaseCamp, but it looks like you have to be running a beta version of the device firmware…
“Added the ability to set the z-order (draw order) of BirdsEye and Garmin custom maps. Note this will only work with new BirdsEye images downloaded for devices with the latest beta firmware.”
This may not be an issue if the trail map is transparent. Perhaps someone else can chime in and verify or correct me.
Rich,
Thanks so much for the quick reply and excellent info.
I must admit I’ve been researching for days and find myself extremely frustrated by all the “limitations” (tile size, number of tiles, max SD-Card size, etc.) that seem to me to exist only as methods to hamper the illegal copying and sharing of digital data.
To a legitimate user with absoloutly no interest in any kind of pirating or illegitimate use of products, and willing to pay for the services I want, it’s a bit exasperating to be confused and complicated because of the illeagl habits of some!
But I digress.
Perhaps you wouldn’t mind commenting on my present strategy (with a couple of imbedded questions!). My primary interest in exploring and mapping trails by ATV, offroad motorcycle, and Jeep / Buggy. We can sometimes cover 50km off-road in a day.
I am going to try the Garmin Topographic Canada DVD with Basecamp mapset, but having used the Canadian 1:50,000 topos both professionally and recreationally for more than 20 years, I’m prepared to be disappointed.
So my backup plan was to use my digital set of topos (the same as my paper, the ones I like) and make custom maps, perhaps with occasional local trail maps (provided by clubs in pdf or jpeg format). However, the “drag and try” allignment using Google Earth is very frustrating and time consuming (and since you’re just “eyeballing” it – rather contrary to the precission GPS offers in the first place).
So now I’m wondring if I should look at a program like TopoFusion inconjunction with BaseCamp and MapInstall – or if I would be better off just getting the Birdseye topo serice and spend some time downloading and saving maps of the areas we ride?
What do you think?
Also:
1) What is the max size microSD-card the Oregon 450 will read? I’ve read conflicting reports.
2) What are the reasons one might use MapSource vice MapInstall?
3) Is MapSource a combination of BaseCamp and MapInstall functionality?
4) If one uses TopoFusion, does it replicate or duplicate the finctionality of any of MapSource, BaseCamp, or MapInstall?
My apologies for the length of this post and muber of questions.
Thanks so much for your time.
Bill
Using the older firmware, old version of Basecamp and all the default settings, lines and points from vector-based maps will draw on top of Birdseye imagery. So, for example, if you enable City Navigator and Birdseye together, the roads, rivers and cities would display on top of the Birdseye imagery. But polygons – such as lakes and parks would not. Evidently this new feature lets you control what does or doesn’t show.
I haven’t tried the new Birdseye topo maps, but I suspect you will get kind of a mess if you display them along with a vector based map because things just won’t line up very well with the older scanned map.
I think the easiest way to get good quality maps is going to be using the BirdsEye Topo product.
1. http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/Hardware (see #H4)
2. MapSource is more of a full-featured mapping program. Map Install only installs maps.
3. In some ways, though BaseCamp adds additional capabilities.
4. In some ways, yes.
hi I have a garmin rino 655t and I wamted to buy birdseye and I was wondering witch one to buy birdseye satellite imagery or satellite topo u.s and canada. what’s the difference between the two?
It definitely makes a mess!
hi I have a garmin rino 655t and I wamted to buy birdseye and I was wondering witch one to buy birdseye satellite imagery or satellite topo u.s and canada. what’s the difference between the two?
One is aerial imagery (photos) and the other is topo maps.
I see on the Garmin website that any maps downloaded to your GPS handheld during the Garmin BirdsEye Topo one year subscription period will not expire…is this true for all maps downloaded to a microSD card? Does anyone know what size microSD cards are compatible with the Garmin Etrex 30. Also, can I load multiple maps on a single microSD card and choose from that card which one I would like to use at any particular time?
I don’t know of any Garmin downloads that expire.
I suspect that they will support cards in a similar fashion to the other recent Garmin handhelds. See question 4 at http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/Hardware
You can load multiple maps to a microSD card but I believe that all will be active. I plan to cover this issue in my full review.
The BirdsEye Topo and satellite imagery subscriptions are not worth it. Let me repeat this NOT WORTH IT!
OK, if you just want a little piece of this or that, maybe it will work for you. But I’ve been working for a week trying to download an area roughly the size of Rhode Island (topo first then satellite) and I’m still not done! The downloads lock up. The server quits responding. The only recourse is to start BaseCamp again. Then it motors along for a bit and BAM! Locked up again or barely moving. Customer Service is no help. I am an IT professional for a living and I can see that they don’t have enough servers to handle the traffic. The infrastructure for the subscription service is inadequate and they will never admit it. If you have time to baby-sit it 24×7, go for it. But if you expect to be able to queue up a bunch of downloads and come back later and the world be fine – forget it. It aint happening.
I wasted $60+.
In my experience, it has gotten a lot better over the past few months. Off-peak times are definitely best for downloading though. I see downloads stop for a few minutes during weekdays, but not any longer than that. Do you have the latest version of BaseCamp?
I’m glad to try and help here, but you can go straight to Garmin at
https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?f=179
I downloaded an awful lot of Birdseye Satellite Imagery last year and this year, since my subscription is expired, I am unable to send these, already downloaded, images to my 62s. Says that I have to renew my subscription. Which for the quality of the imagery, I am not willing to do. Would still like to have the low quality images I paid for though…. Might call Garmin tech support later.
They should show up in the Collections lists on the left. You should be able to right-click from there and choose Send to Device.
I do see the imagery in Basecamp. But when I right click and choose “send to” my Garmin, it says that the device is not authorized (or something to that effect). I probably just need to get on the phone with Garmin tech support. But at first I had assumed that it was that I needed to renew the subscription, even though I specifically remember asking this very question before subscribing in the first place. Glad I caught this thread. I will get on the phone with Garmin later tonight hopefully.
Let me know what you find out. My subscription on my 62s expires in a couple of weeks, so I’ll be able to tell more then.
I can tell you that BirdsEye definitely continues to work after your subscription expires, because it still works on my old Oregon. However, I have never tried to send imagery from Basecamp back to the Oregon after it expired. It may very well be that this doesn’t work.
It may be too late for you now, but while my subscription was still active I sent all of my downloaded imagery to a 16GB SD card, then I backed up that card to a folder on my computer. That will allow me to add or remove the Birdseye files from the Oregon or a card without using Basecamp.
Rich, you might want to do this before your subscription expires, just in case…
If that is the case… I will definitely be having words with Garmin about this….
I specifically called Garmin about this question when I subscribed in the first place. I specifically asked what would happen to my imagery once the subscription expires and was told, that I would still have FULL access to it, and that I just wouldn’t be able to download new images. I not only read this on several forums, and I believe even read it in a Garmin FAQ page, but I know that I also called to be sure.
I emailed Garmin yesterday. I will let you know what the reply is.
The reply was as suspected…. Once the subscription expires you can no longer transfer to the device. This policy is one that I think Garmin needs to take a hard look at. If nothing else they should offer a lifetime subscription option. Do they really expect their clients to pay $30/year indefinitely for maps that aren’t changing? If this is the same policy that applies to the Birdseye Topo product that is insane. We’re talking about NRC maps that haven’t changed and won’t change for decades and they expect us to shell out yearly? No thanks. Buyer beware!!
Confirmed all of the above after discussing with Garmin tech support.
What are they thinking? They offer lifetime map subscriptions with all of their other products, but not with Birdseye? Have they not considered a case study or two, or is the data not there yet?
Maybe I am not a typical Garmin customer but if I was a case study Garmin ought to consider this:
1. I will probably replace my mapping handheld every 3 years with the “latest greatest”
2. Units also get lost, broken, damaged, need wipe/reset to factory settings once and a while.
3. Micro SD cards are not indestructible and also susceptible to loss, data corruption, accidental deletion, etc.
4. Given 1-3 above, the only way a guy like me is going to be able to use their Birdseye product is if I am willing to shell out $30/year indefinitely, for what is essentially a static product (NRC topos haven’t changed since the 1950′s from what I understand).
5. If Garmin wants clients for life, and I am to be a client for life, and we assume that for the purposes of this case study, that is 20 years, I would potentially be spending (or Garmin expects me to spend) $6000 for a set of digitized Topo maps.
Sorry, Garmin… That is just simply not gonna happen. Are there any readers here that would spend that kind of $$$ for a product that has some pretty close competitors at tiny fractions of that figure?
I can say with certainty this: Garmin will get $30 from me once for their Birdseye product. They certainly won’t see me coming back for another $30 hosejob though. Maybe there are a few Garmin clients that would get duped twice, maybe even 3 times. But is there really anyone out there that will keep getting taken for a $30 ride, year after year indefinitely? Maybe there is…
On the other hand, I am a nuMaps lifetime subscriber for the CityNavigator product. If a lifetime subscription were offered for the Birdseye products, at $100 one-time cost (comparable to nuMaps), I might be persuaded. Garmin, you just increased your revenue from this client by 200+%.
I would like to believe that there are more in the latter category, than in the former, but I could be way off on that. What I am probably even further off on though, is on the assumption that Garmin is actually listening and that they care at all.
Thanks for sharing this Greg. I tweeted it yesterday and will include it in my link roundup this weekend. I may even do a post on it once my subscription expires the end of this month.
I can see why you’re upset, but really the practical solution is to simply backup the .jnx files after sending them to your devices. Those won’t expire. I never really thought twice about this, because I backup all of my maps and certainly backed up my Birdseye considering how tedious it was to download 14GB of data.
And this is also much more practical than using Basecamp to send the files to your GPS. It takes forever to do this using Basecamp, but copying the .jnx files directly to the card from a folder on your computer is much faster.
Regarding the lifetime maps, I don’t have those for my nuvi’s and wouldn’t buy them for Birdseye. I think $30 for “all you can eat” is a real bargain, considering what Garmin charges for the regular maps. But your lifetime City Navigator maps are also locked to a specific device and cannot be moved to another one if it is stolen or if you upgrade.
The Birdseye situation is actually pretty similar to other maps that are purchased via download from Garmin. When you purchase a map like this (I have City Navigator for my Montana), it is installed directly on a memory card or internal memory of your GPS. You then have 12 months during which you can download it again if you lose the card or accidentally delete the file. After that, you’re out of luck. So again, it is your responsibility to back up that map if you want to use it after a year has passed.
Great advice Boyd. Linking to this in Waypoints this week.